REJECT LEGALISM

“Our particular branch of Methodism really was started with justice in mind, which I really appreciate. So, we branched off of the Methodist Church that was pro-slavery. We were anti-slavery, so we said we believe that all people should be free. And in particular, with that, well, in conjunction with that, we were pro-women in ministry from the beginning. The first woman voted in a Wesleyan Church in New York, I think, is one of our piece of history there.”

“One of the big issues is the building, is that, it even took me a while to figure that out, is that we don't own the buildings. From a revitalization team, let me tell you the importance of when your local congregation doesn't own the building. Is, as you know, all churches only have a certain lifespan. And when they close and don't have that ability anymore, we can come in and actually rebirth that resource, or we can sell that resource. The money only goes to birthing new churches.”

“I was just at a meeting a couple weeks ago in India, Indianapolis, not India, Indiana. And there was, there is a, at our general conference next year, there's a what we call memorial to reduce, that they went through and said, what can we call out of here? And this will pass, I'm sure. We're going to take a bunch of those pages out. Which again is a desire and a recognition that if we're going to be a movement, there has to be some things we do that are different.”

“Scripture has to be read through what Wesley called the Wesley Quadrilateral. So, right, scripture, so I think of it as a baseball diamond. Home base is where you start, and home base is where you end. And you don't really get credit for being stuck on second base, or third base or first base, right? So home base is scripture, first base is in different order here for different people, but mostly it's tradition, reason and experience.”

“Wesley taught it much more as a process, and I believe that is way more biblical. It's way more Jesus saves me, he transforms me, and somewhere along the line, I just surrender completely to him. And then, he has freedom to work in every corner of my life. That doesn't mean I don't sin again, that doesn't mean I don't have struggles again, that doesn't mean I don't need accountability and discipline. So in that sense, my entire life is open to his sanctification. So that's how I interpret that. I'm giving my entire life to his sanctifying work rather than some sort of a finished product.”

“When I went to seminary at Nazarene Seminary, and I began to understand Wesley's theology of love, and his heart for both holiness and love. So, God is described as holy love. Like if there's one definition of God that I think captures who God is, it's holy love. Wesleyan theology, I think, teaches that, again, with other theologies, but Wesleyan theology particularly teaches that there is a transformation that love can accomplish in individuals, in families, in churches.”

“One of the things that really has happened in our denomination is a deep entrenchment of legalism. So when I moved to Lawrence in 1987, there was a group of people who, I say, were the victims of legalism, not the perpetrators. All the perpetrators had either died or moved away. And these folks were living in fear. They were worried about offending God at every turn. They had a hard time laughing and enjoying life because they were so committed to this holiness thing.”

“One fun fact. I think the last letter that Wesley wrote, he wrote it from his deathbed, he wrote to William Wilberforce to encourage him to continue on the fight in parliament.”

“A seminary professor said, you know, in Nazarene Seminary said, you know, us Nazarenes and Wesleyans, we were holy. We didn't go to movie theaters, so God rewarded us by creating VCRs. You know, so it was a beautiful thing. And so it was his way of saying legalism is really stupid, you know.”