RECRUIT TALENT

“And I would say the biggest thing that stood out to me when you were talking was, you talked about paying people more. And this is one of the great asymmetric arbitrages that exists, which is that the person who is truly great is worth somewhere between 10 and 100 times the average person. But they'll never cost 10 to 100 times. In every other industry in all of history, it's like the A plus person versus the B plus person is getting paid 10% more, 30% more, 50% more, even 150% more max, but they're generating 1,000% more of return of work. And so the mindset shift has to be there of like, the whole game is find the best people.”

“I've told my kids that we're going to work together, but in the reverse. So I think most people who build business and become successful, they want their kids to inherit the business, to take over the business. That's not my plan. But what I've been telling them is, I'm gonna work for you. I was like, when I retire, my goal, like I wanna be, I'm gonna work on whatever you're, I'll be your intern, basically. And they're like, but you're gonna have to pay me. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll pay you then. They're like, you have to pay me 10, $10 bucks, which is what they call money.”

“So, early on, I was working on, like you said, like messaging apps, social media apps, basically. And hey, guess when all the social media apps were made? Between 2004 and 2012. And then I'm, you know, so I'm 10 years late to the party and I'm starting to think about, like, hey, what if I made, like, a place where you could post photos and send videos to each other? It's like, yeah, it's called Snapchat. So the things I was working on was the last waves opportunity. Now, that sounds stupid. Why would you do last waves opportunity? Well, the answer is it's pretty understandable because that's proven to work and I'm trying to, I'm so insecure and like have such a lack of a spine that I'm just gonna go towards what I think might actually work and I'm using what has already worked.”

“I've told my kids that we're going to work together, but in the reverse. So I think most people who build business and become successful, they want their kids to inherit the business, to take over the business. That's not my plan. But what I've been telling them is, I'm gonna work for you. I was like, when I retire, my goal, like I wanna be, I'm gonna work on whatever you're, I'll be your intern, basically. And they're like, but you're gonna have to pay me. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll pay you then. They're like, you have to pay me 10, $10 bucks, which is what they call money.”

“I believe what they found was that it's not that the clips job, the clips are there to promote the live show. It's that the live show is there to produce the clips, and the clips is the product. And we do this four hour live stream as a farming exercise to just farm 20 great clips a day. And if we do 20 great clips a day and we're on your feed where you're already browsing and where you're hanging out and we give you 10 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 40 seconds of entertainment, of insight, of a great sound bite, well, we've done our job. That's the show. The show is this distributed thing, not one central long form thing.”

“So he had half a million subscribers. He was doing videos that were getting a million views, but it wasn't what he wanted as a creator. As like the artist in him was not like, this is it. And he walked away. And I just want to point that out because walking away from that, and then not just walking away from that and trying to build back up to that, but like when you're doing TBPN and you're going live every morning and you don't get to go on vacation because you got to be live every morning and you're dressing up in your suit, you're showing up at the studio, and you look at that number on your live stream and you've got 3,000 people watched today. Do you know how hard that is mentally as a creator who was just seeing that same number on YouTube be 1 million?”

“It was the guys like clout chasing on one side and then kissing your ass on the other. That I didn't appreciate. I had friends that didn't agree with a lot of what we were doing, but they'd still like, I'm writing a check to your campaign because I just believe in you. And even if we don't agree on much politically, like you're still a friend. And like, those guys are great.”

“And I would say the biggest thing that stood out to me when you were talking was, you talked about paying people more. And this is one of the great asymmetric arbitrages that exists, which is that the person who is truly great is worth somewhere between 10 and 100 times the average person. But they'll never cost 10 to 100 times. In every other industry in all of history, it's like the A plus person versus the B plus person is getting paid 10% more, 30% more, 50% more, even 150% more max, but they're generating 1,000% more of return of work. And so the mindset shift has to be there of like, the whole game is find the best people.”

“Honestly, it was the same. You just knew it was a generational talent. You know, I don't know much, but I think, you know, if there's one thing I've probably proven to be fairly decent at in the last decade or so, is sort of just understanding talent. And I recognized it in an instant. I mean, it was literally five minutes. I'm like, okay, interview's over, like you're traveling with me.”

“It was really dumb. I think it's really dumb for OpenAI. I think that HubSpot bought a media company, my media company, and it makes sense because they were using it to sell $20,000 a year software, and there's a direct attribution. With OpenAI, they already have a billion users. I don't understand how there's any growth related to this, other than it's just a cool thing to own.”

“So like there was this company, I remember discovering called G Fuel. They figured out that Twitch streamers were undervalued assets. And so what GFuel did was it went to all of them and it ran basically the Nike playbook with streamers. So they would go to the popular streamers, they'd say, hey, we want to develop a flavor just for you, a shaker bottle that's your colors, your branding, and you're gonna get a cut of the affiliate revenue. And they partnered with all the top streamers, which was not that hard to do at the time. And so they went zero to 100 million in sales. And guys like you and I had never heard of them, because they did it just within this gaming bubble.”

“I believe what they found was that it's not that the clips job, the clips are there to promote the live show. It's that the live show is there to produce the clips, and the clips is the product. And we do this four hour live stream as a farming exercise to just farm 20 great clips a day. And if we do 20 great clips a day and we're on your feed where you're already browsing and where you're hanging out and we give you 10 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 40 seconds of entertainment, of insight, of a great sound bite, well, we've done our job. That's the show. The show is this distributed thing, not one central long form thing.”

“It was really dumb. I think it's really dumb for OpenAI. I think that HubSpot bought a media company, my media company, and it makes sense because they were using it to sell $20,000 a year software, and there's a direct attribution. With OpenAI, they already have a billion users. I don't understand how there's any growth related to this, other than it's just a cool thing to own.”

“So William Randolph Hearst, I think he was born in something like 1860. William Randolph Hearst was a larger-than-life character. So we went to Harvard and kind of took over the clubs system. He convinces his father, Dad, I graduated college. I need something to do. Can we please buy the San Francisco Examiner? But William Randolph Hearst, he realized that he loved newspapers. And so he builds up the examiner a little bit. And what he did was sort of what modern journalism and media is today. Have you heard of this phrase called yellow journalism? So basically, up until like the early 1900s, newspapers were boring. And so William Randolph Hearst, who's this young, charismatic guy, he was like, make the headlines bigger, add photos. And then the phrase, if it bleeds, it leads. It came from that era.”

“So, early on, I was working on, like you said, like messaging apps, social media apps, basically. And hey, guess when all the social media apps were made? Between 2004 and 2012. And then I'm, you know, so I'm 10 years late to the party and I'm starting to think about, like, hey, what if I made, like, a place where you could post photos and send videos to each other? It's like, yeah, it's called Snapchat. So the things I was working on was the last waves opportunity. Now, that sounds stupid. Why would you do last waves opportunity? Well, the answer is it's pretty understandable because that's proven to work and I'm trying to, I'm so insecure and like have such a lack of a spine that I'm just gonna go towards what I think might actually work and I'm using what has already worked.”

“So he had half a million subscribers. He was doing videos that were getting a million views, but it wasn't what he wanted as a creator. As like the artist in him was not like, this is it. And he walked away. And I just want to point that out because walking away from that, and then not just walking away from that and trying to build back up to that, but like when you're doing TBPN and you're going live every morning and you don't get to go on vacation because you got to be live every morning and you're dressing up in your suit, you're showing up at the studio, and you look at that number on your live stream and you've got 3,000 people watched today. Do you know how hard that is mentally as a creator who was just seeing that same number on YouTube be 1 million?”

“So like there was this company, I remember discovering called G Fuel. They figured out that Twitch streamers were undervalued assets. And so what GFuel did was it went to all of them and it ran basically the Nike playbook with streamers. So they would go to the popular streamers, they'd say, hey, we want to develop a flavor just for you, a shaker bottle that's your colors, your branding, and you're gonna get a cut of the affiliate revenue. And they partnered with all the top streamers, which was not that hard to do at the time. And so they went zero to 100 million in sales. And guys like you and I had never heard of them, because they did it just within this gaming bubble.”

“I think it was October 2020 I think I did 104 rallies that month. So that's four a day. And I don't mean like, you know, a lunch or a breakfast. I mean, like, you know, 300 to 10,000 people in a room, four times a day, 31 days straight. And it's sort of brutal. And at the end of it, you're like, I just sort of want to be done with it.”

“I think I've done more hours of congressional testimony, you know, for treason. Right. I mean, you know, a crime punishable by death. That became like my average Tuesday. It was like, oh, they're going to try to kill you again, Don. I'm like, it's fine. Can I catch lunch first?”

“So he came to my house about a year ago and he was like, yeah, I'm thinking about putting together a hostile takeover of Take Two Interactive. I'm like, Take Two Interactive? What is that? Is that the, do they make video games? He's like, yeah, they make NBA 2K and they make Grand Theft Auto. And I was like, do you know anything about a hostile, what is a hostile takeover? He's like, yeah, this will be my first. And I was like, you're insane.”

“So he came to my house about a year ago and he was like, yeah, I'm thinking about putting together a hostile takeover of Take Two Interactive. I'm like, Take Two Interactive? What is that? Is that the, do they make video games? He's like, yeah, they make NBA 2K and they make Grand Theft Auto. And I was like, do you know anything about a hostile, what is a hostile takeover? He's like, yeah, this will be my first. And I was like, you're insane.”

“So William Randolph Hearst, I think he was born in something like 1860. William Randolph Hearst was a larger-than-life character. So we went to Harvard and kind of took over the clubs system. He convinces his father, Dad, I graduated college. I need something to do. Can we please buy the San Francisco Examiner? But William Randolph Hearst, he realized that he loved newspapers. And so he builds up the examiner a little bit. And what he did was sort of what modern journalism and media is today. Have you heard of this phrase called yellow journalism? So basically, up until like the early 1900s, newspapers were boring. And so William Randolph Hearst, who's this young, charismatic guy, he was like, make the headlines bigger, add photos. And then the phrase, if it bleeds, it leads. It came from that era.”

“A hundred percent. I mean, the best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to actually be out here, to doing this, to be unafraid, to not back down. I know I was supposed to do something with him literally the week after that. And as you mentioned sort of in the intro, you know, I met Charlie, I think he was 19 or just turned 20. And it was 2015 at the beginning of that cycle.”