Trump vs. the Pope

Key Takeaways

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  Iran war sparked the Trump-Pope conflict

  “But then as he has spoken out about war, it has been perceived by the Trump administration as more and more a direct attack. And certainly after the war began against Iran, the pope has increasingly been making more pointed comments about the need to return to dialogue and the abhorrence for war.”

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  Hegseth’s religious rhetoric triggered Vatican response

  “Once Pete Hegseth invoked the name of Jesus Christ in asking for a victory for the American side, he was basically saying he was asking God to take sides. I think that really upset the Pope, and it was highly unusual for a government official to use a religious figure to justify war.”

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  Trump labels Pope Leo a leftist tool

  “We saw this truth social post that the president had posted literally minutes before we were all waking up where he attacked the pope as weak on crime and a tool of the radical left. He even talked about how he preferred the Pope's brother, who apparently is a Trump supporter.”

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  Pope Leo claims moral authority against war

  “I have no fear that neither the Trump administration are speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel. I don't think that the message of the gospel is meant to be abused in the way that some people are doing. And I will continue to speak out loud against war.”

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  Catholic leaders reject Iran war as unjust

  “Under Catholic teaching, this is not a just war. We're dehumanizing the victims of war by turning the suffering of people and the killing of children and our own soldiers into entertainment. It is sickening and goes against the fundamental message of the gospel.”

Episode Description

This week, an unusual disagreement broke out between the president of the United States and Pope Leo XIV. The New York Times Rome bureau chief, Motoko Rich, explains why President Trump cares so much about what the pope thinks, and why it matters that they are so deeply at odds.